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 Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!

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Ionjii1026
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PostSubject: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:28 pm

I'm sure many of you will know of the upset in physics that Cern, OPERA specifically, has revealed. Basically a Neutrino which has mass, has exceeded the speed of massless particles, light, which according to relativity is impossible.

So Physics is in a bit of a state. Here's the article:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15017484

And here's the sporums version: (i'm G1s26 btw) http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/75079.page
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:37 pm

Did it occur to anyone that maybe our knowledge of Physics if off a bit? Everyone is convinced its impossible but its not like we really know for sure.

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Ionjii1026
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Location : Well, if i were to tell you that i was a Quantum Particle, and that i know exactly my speed then that would make my location incredibly uncertain, and lying anywhere within a range of differing values, none of which can be confirmed without interfering with my unpredictable quantum state. Bet you wish you didn't ask now.

PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:42 pm

Thats why this result is so interesting, it shows that there is a major hole in our understanding of the world around us., that lead us to believe something that has now been shown to be possible, was impossible.

Also it may not be as disastrous for general relativity as we think.
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:43 pm

I reckon there was an error with the measuring apparatus. The amount the Neutrino was faster (0.00000006 seconds) isn't really that much (though enough to mess up Physics if this is true), and faulty measuring apparatus could explain the consistent difference. Nonetheless, I'm kinda hoping this is true, as a major breakthrough in Physics would be really quite exciting.

Also, It's almost certain we have stuff in Physics wrong, in my opinion. What, though, is a different story. People are definitely going to be skeptical when something threatens a theory a large chunk of modern physics is built on.
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:45 pm

FTL Warpdrives, here we come! :D

But seriously, this is quite interesting. And a bit unnerving, for whatever reason...
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Ionjii1026
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:48 pm

Personally i think this is what string theory has been waiting for, as many believe string theory will be able to explain this phenomenon.

However whati'm wondering is if the Heisenberg uncertainty principle doesn't allow us to know both the location and velocity of a particle, then surely the fact we have pinned down the location of these neutrinos, and the path they took means their velocity became uncertain, maybe so much so it went superluminal. IDK though to be honest, there is most probably a major flaw with my theory.
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:51 pm

Honestly speaking, I just want them to do this again so we can apply this to spaceshipz. Trollface

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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:54 pm

Drew980 wrote:
Honestly speaking, I just want them to do this again so we can apply this to spaceshipz. Trollface
Precisely.
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Ionjii1026
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:55 pm

The Neutrino drive is THE new alcubierre Drive happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:14 pm

Jeez, when I was a kid we just banged rocks together and used slingshots if we were curious what was in space, Now you kids are running around with your new fanged string theory and panicking about the fact that some of us have realized that our basic understanding of physics could be wrong.

Now, in all seriousness. This is science the way it should be, researching and finding out new things to replace old, flawed theories. It's the nature of science for our theories to be challenged, or even to be found incorrect. I'm personally excited to see where this new discovery takes us, it'll either be positive, or the scientific community will go nuts, commit a mass suicide, and leave the stupid people to run the world.

Isn't science just great?

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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:41 pm

Hutch wrote:
Now, in all seriousness. This is science the way it should be, researching and finding out new things to replace old, flawed theories. It's the nature of science for our theories to be challenged, or even to be found incorrect. I'm personally excited to see where this new discovery takes us, it'll either be positive, or the scientific community will go nuts, commit a mass suicide, and leave the stupid people to run the world.
Precisely. Just because Einstein said it doesn't make it true. Everything in science is just a theory waiting to be disproved or fortified.Heck, I'm fairly sure that people used to think nothing could go faster than the speed of sound. How is light any different?
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:53 am

I must agree with Gelo and Hutch. However, as I haven't read the article yet I can't say anything else at the moment.
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:36 am

I read this too. My science teacher printed this out and gave it to me. Basically, Neutrinos have 3 different flavors, and fluctuate their energy levels a lot, therefore changing their speed. They are NOT affected by gravity, and are neutral, so I'm not surprised that they go really fast. I actually think it's been a long time coming that we find light isn't the ultimate speed. Anyway, that's the opinion of possible the person here MOST obsessed with particle physics, even though I may not be an expert, I've watched many documentaries on Neutrinos. (BTW, CERN is epic.)

-Lazer
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:46 am

I repeat what i said on the Sporum: They will just change what the speed of light is, it is not constant anyway, it is possible to slow light down using certain chemicals and extreme cold.

The thing is - science is ALWAYS evolving... a speech from Men in Black springs to mind happy.
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PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:17 pm

Yes, but it IS constant in a vacuum. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that's whet is referred to when people say 'the speed of light'.
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Ionjii1026
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Location : Well, if i were to tell you that i was a Quantum Particle, and that i know exactly my speed then that would make my location incredibly uncertain, and lying anywhere within a range of differing values, none of which can be confirmed without interfering with my unpredictable quantum state. Bet you wish you didn't ask now.

PostSubject: Re: Y U NO WORK PHYSICS?!   Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:29 pm

Ferrety wrote:
Yes, but it IS constant in a vacuum. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that's whet is referred to when people say 'the speed of light'.

Yes it is.

@Gelo light is different, as it is the speed of massless particles, and sound is the oscillations of other particles. So yeah the speed of light is the cosmic speed limit, or to be more correct the speed of massless particles is. The fact that Neutrinos have exceeded luminal velocities, either means string theory win, or that speed of light is not massless particles, and it changes nothing else, just that the speed of light is replaced by another greater speed, so relativity has not been disproved.

Truth is this is what CERN was always meant to do, bring up questions of our understanding, ones that need answerring, this is probably the biggest scientific discovery since the proposition of string theory.
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